City of Port Orange considers disbanding city's police department

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found at

http://www.news-journalonline.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/2010/08/21/port-orange-made-right-decision.html

poanposted 8 21 10 at 123 pm

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Port Orange

City will keep its own police force

read more in the Home Town News

poanposted 8 13 10 at 1224 am

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Port Orange Police Department Contract Proposal - Volusia County ...
A recording of the presentation to the Port Orange City Council can be viewed on Port Orange's Government T.V. station, pogTV -- Bright House channel 199 ...
www.volusia.org/sheriff/Port_Orange.../port_orange.htm

poanposted 8 12 10 at 118 pm

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Port Orange leaders reject Sheriff's Office taking over police services

poanposted 8 11 10 at 124 pm

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6 pm 8 10 10

Port Orange City Hall is packed with citizens who came to attend

the special budget workshop regarding disbanding the POPD.

The meeting ended around 7 20 pm with all city council members

indicating that they want to keep the Port Orange Police Department

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VCSO taking police responsibilities in Port Orange

these proposed contracts are not in the interest of the residents of Port Orange
for a number of reasons:

From Bob Ford, Port Orange, Fl.

Received 8 10 10

Analysis of the proposed contract provided by the Sheriff’s Department raises a series of immediate issues. It is important to note that our Sheriff did not seek out this contract, he was approached by the City.  The Sheriff operates a very professional department, nonetheless, these proposed contracts are not in the interest of the residents of Port Orange for a number of reasons:

• ·         Financial savings are not realized by economies of scale but rather by reduction in personnel.

If the City wanted to risk these substantial reductions in officers, it could achieve the same savings as those suggested by the Sheriff by cutting staffing to the same levels without contracting with the Sheriff’s Department. (See: City Comparative Budget Analysis of the Proposed Contracts).

• ·         The contract does not provide sufficient coverage to have 9 patrol deputies for continuous patrol service.

The Sheriff poses in his least expensive option the staffing of 9 patrol officers and 2 supervisors (sergeants) to patrol Port Orange 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. The contract proposal calls for 36 officers and 8 sergeants. If one calculates actual working hours, to cover vacation, turnover, sick time, injuries, military leave, training etc. the 24 hour a day staffing requires 5 or more deputies per post. This is a deficit of 9 officers and 2 sergeants. Either coverage will be further reduced below the 9 posts or it will be covered by very expensive overtime.  To provide full coverage, the Sheriff will have to either increase contract costs or reduce coverage.

• ·         The Option One Contract provides level of police coverage substantially lower than in any other city of comparable size.

Port Orange under this scenario would have an officer per thousand population of 1.05. Presently Port Orange Police Department ranks third from the bottom (out of 270 agencies) in per capita officers (1.4) in the State of Florida. This contract will reduce per capita officers to a range no other city of our size has tried. In contrast, the Volusia County Sheriff’s comparative per capita officer ratio is currently 1.8.

• ·         The contract has extremely negative implications for current POPD officers.

The contract does not guarantee employment for current POPD officer. POPD officers, however, will be permitted to apply to the Sheriff’s Department. If accepted, POPD officers will lose all seniority and rank. They will also lose all time in service pay increments. They will start with zero seniority and at the bottom of the pay scale. They will start afresh in a new pension system.  This will impact POPD officers  negatively in working conditions, seniority, promotions and income.

• ·         After the contract goes into place Port Orange will be policed by officers who feel  betrayed, frustrated, and in some cases angry. This may impact the quality and level of their response.

The contract calls for officers rehired from Port Orange to be assigned back to Port Orange. The positive is that they know the area, they know the people, and there will be no le arning curve. The negative is that these officers most probably will be both bitter and depressed, given their loss of wages, seniority and rank.

• ·         Once a city shuts down its department, it is very difficult to reestablish a new department.  The city will be at the mercy of the county as contract costs escalate.

----- Bob Ford

(Robert E. Ford, District 1 candidate, Port Orange City Council is a former Police Chief

of the Port Orange Police Deparment.)

poanposted 8 10 10 at 457 pm

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Parker, who supports keeping the city's police department, said there's more to weigh than the bottom line.

. . . . Johnson said last week Port Orange would save about $2 million in the first year for comparable coverage with the Volusia County Sheriff's Office for the funding of 79 positions. But city police officers -- no matter seniority or rank -- would start at the bottom of the agency's pay and pension scale.

Anticipating large budget shortfalls, the City Council in June requested the Sheriff's Office provide the impact in money and manpower of taking over law enforcement duties in Port Orange.

The cost for the city's 83-person department in the forthcoming budget is expected to be about $11 million, when including pensions and other benefits. The closest of three estimated cost options presented by the sheriff -- covering 79 positions -- would cost the city $8.8 million the first year and $10.2 million the second, not including current pension responsibilities.

The City Council will weigh three options provided in the sheriff's proposal against the city's own numbers for keeping the police department running. All three show a small savings if the service stays with the city.

Parker said the sheriff's proposal was fueled by a resident at a budget hearing who argued the Sheriff's Office could provide the service at a lower cost. In addition, Parker, who supports keeping the city's police department, said there's more to weigh than the bottom line.

"There are intangibles that cannot necessarily by empirically placed on a balance sheet," he said. "Among those intangibles, are knowledge of the community, dedication of the individuals, length of service and confidence of the citizenry in the police force."

The City Council meets at City Hall at 6 p.m., 8 10 10

read more in the Daytona Beach News-Journal On Line

poanposted 8 10 10 at 1113 am

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8 10 10 reconsidering disbanding popd

Video segment from 8 am TV news, 8 10 10
channel 27, WRDQ

you can also see this video on you tube

poanposted 8 10 10 at 1106 am

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Let us know what you think.

Keep POPD or get VCSO to police the city of Port Orange, Fl?

send us your vote, and/or thoughts

poanposted 8 6 10 at 750 pm

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Received 8 10 10

Save my tax dollars and get better policing no brainer.  Can not wait to see the green and whites in my neighborhood.

--Initials V.C.

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OUR MAYOR AND COUNCIL LOOK LIKE A
BUNCH OF IDIOTS

Received 8 10 10

HAS THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL LOST
THEIR MINDS? WE HAVE A TOP NOTCH  ACCREDITED DEPT, THE FIRST TO ACHIEVE
THIS IN VOLUSIA. THEY HAVE RECEIVED NATIONAL HONORS FOR TRAFFIC SAFETY
ENFORCEMENT.WE HAVE ONE OF THE LOWEST CRIME RATES IN FLORIDA, ALL OF
WHICH HELP CONTROL LIABILITY COSTS TO THE CITY. HAS ANY OF THIS BEEN
TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
TO BUILD A MILLION DOLLAR, STATE OF THE ART POLICE STATION AND GET RID
OF THE PEOPLE WHO SERVICE IT , IS LIKE A FARMER BUILDING A BIG BARN THEN
SHOOTING HIS HORSES. THIS IS MAKING OUR MAYOR AND COUNCIL LOOK LIKE A
BUNCH OF IDIOTS.
----- NORAIN SCHRECKENGOST
PORT ORANGE

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POAN Hank has a thought:

Is it not true that the city of Port Orange has not yet settled its contract

with the Port Orange Police PBA? Was this idea of disbanding the POPD a ploy to get leverage

on the PBA in union negotiations not yet completed?

--- hank, poanposted 8 10 10 at 1059 am

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Received 8 9 10

Absolutely 1000 % keep the POPD.  If the city would like to save money why doesn't Ken Parker take a pay cut?  Why don't they sell off some of the many properties that they have purchased in recent years?  Let's think about this - all of a sudden this is a problem, hmm, who has been running this city for the last 15 or 20 years - maybe we should get rid of him.  Poor planning and budgeting don't you think?  What did the city do with all of the money they received during the real estate boom?  If the public doesn't speak up they will slide this in right under our noses and it will be too late.  Funny, this all has been kept pretty quiet.  Actually this is all about raising taxes.  Well you know what, if they let the VCSO do our policing with their "estimated" costs - they will raise our taxes anyway.  With all of the cuts the county has been making who is to say that if they take over the PD that they won't cut the few officers they may take on.  I have no problem paying more taxes to keep the POPD, they are worth every penny.  Please don't let the city council and the powers that be become penny wise and pound foolish.  Remember, you get what you pay for !   Please keep the POPD and keep our city safe.  Please support the men and women of the POPD who keep crime under control and keep us safe in this ever changing world.

D. Kreuscher

poanposted 8 9 10 at 930 pm

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--Bruce Reed, Port Orange,

received 8 8 10

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received 8 8 10

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----- Maureen, received 8 8 10

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Special events in the city also offer police another opportunity to make an extra buck, said Assistant Police Chief Wayne Miller. The rate in Port Orange for outside details is $40 an hour, Miller said. . . .

A Port Orange police patrol car sits outside the Hollywood Theaters at the Pavilion in Port Orange while the officer works in the lobby of the complex Saturday. N-J | Nigel Cook

. . . . Protecting moviegoers is also an outside detail in Port Orange. Cops there also have an ongoing outside detail with the new theaters that opened recently at The Pavilion at Port Orange on South Williamson Boulevard, the city's new shopping area. Like Ormond Beach cops, Port Orange officers provide security on Friday and Saturday evenings.

Special events in the city also offer police another opportunity to make an extra buck, said Assistant Police Chief Wayne Miller. The rate in Port Orange for outside details is $40 an hour, Miller said. . . . .

read more in the Daytona Beach News-Journal On Line

poanposted 8 9 10 at 917 am

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Should we rebel against our elected leaders?

Do our city council members really tell us what they are thinking?

POAN Hank responds to the two e mails following:

1. My sentiments are with Karl Weinberg. I have watched months and years of
speaking and writing to our representatives, at every level of government,
and have not seen that they understand that we demand they represent us.

And thus, we have people running for office in local city election, who may be
very good, decent, honest and intelligent people, but come from occupations
that we have seen much to much of in city politics. Construction, realty, banks,
and the chamber of commerce.

We do have candidates who support our public safety groups,
and I understand that there are a few who blame them for our financial
mess, but I do not. In the years past, they asked for things, rightfully in union negotiations,
and through contracts received them, perhaps from people with ties to construction, realtors, banks
and the chamber of commerce.

I want good public safety, and without it, all the Hooligan's, ABC Liquor , and Pavilion shopping centers
are not worth it if we are afraid to let our families go shopping there. I do hope our many businesses
and shopping malls here in Port Orange are paying their fair share of our public safety costs.
We probably have a need to put a satellite police station at Wal Marts.

Karl, I think you are saying that something more than words are needed to get a response
from our elected leaders. I'm with you.

2. Regarding the sunshine law. I have asked questions of the City Manager and other council members
regarding hearing more comments, opinions and thoughts from our council members. They don't seem
to want to go on record. Did the Mayor ever learn how to use e mail?

I have asked the city manager, to provide a city web site web page for each member of council,
where council members can inform us of their thinking as we try to help them think through issues.
I have been told that the city attorney advises that such a communication technique would be a violation
of the sunshine law. Fred Costello, mayor of Ormond Beach, told me that if the city council members really wanted to do that, they could find a way.

In a conversation with Bob Pohlmann I asked him if he thought the sunshine law was too constricting
for city council members. He said no, because he could still communicate by e mail, or speak
to constituents on a one to one basis.

But, I said, when a city council person answers an individual, we don't know what kind of advice or opinions are being dispensed to others,
although the sunshine law wants us to have open information flowing to us.
I suggested that city council people should let us know at public council meetings what kind of
and what number
e mails they are getting in regards to issues coming before the council for a vote,
and what kind of response council members are giving to individuals. We should all know
what is going on in private communications between council people and the public.

I was given the opportunity to review the city's e mails, and each week I was provided with a large
stack of e mail that went and came from the city manager's office. I realized that many times this
did not include emails sent to individual council members, and I thought that some time in the future,
I might ask for them to be included. But the task became overwhelming for me, and I stopped
reading and reporting on e mails to and from the city manager.

One thing most of our city council people like very much, is to be very quiet about what they are thinking.

The suspicion I have, is that if you have made promises to certain individuals that you don't want
the public to know about, the sunshine law can be interpreted to suit the needs, just fine.

---- hank postpoaned 8 8 10 at 446 pm

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Following are two e mails,

one from Karl Weinberg, Port Orange, Florida,

who is responding to the other e mail

from Craig E. Young, Port Orange, Fl.

Received 8 8 10

poanpopsted 8 8 10 at 424 pm

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Port Orange officials debate turning over policing to county

By RAY WEISS, Staff writer Daytona Beach News-Journa On Line

  August 5, 2010 12:05 AM

Posted in:

• East Volusia

Tagged:

• Port Orange Police Department

From WFTV channel 9 TV news of Aug. 5, 2010 during the 5 am news cast.

A video segment about the Aug. 4, 2010 presentation by

VCSO Sheriff Ben Johnson, in which he estimates Port Orange

can save 3 million dollars by letting the VCSO take over

police duties within Port Orange.

Do you want the quality of life whch Deltona has, or are you willing to pay

the cost to retain the Port Orange Police Department? -- hank

Let us know - poimages@cfl.rr.com

Use this link to tell us what you think

poanposted 8 5 10 at 1005 am

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THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN THROWING AWAY ONE POLICE DEPARTMENT

IN ORDER TO GET A CHEAPER ONE.

I understand from one seasoned Port Orange police officer, that if he took the option
to become a deputy as outlined in the discussion before the city council on Wed., 8 4 10
that he would have to take a cut of about 7 dollars an hour. Also, he would expect to lose his seniority.

This kind of a transfer should be negotiated. We are not dealing with people who walk into 7/11
and apply for a job. We are talking about professionals with a legal background and education,
who have experienced expertise to value, and not some draftee from a Carolina farm into the Army.

Both PBAs of the VCSO and the POPD should be able to negotiate for their members some kind of
merger which would be fair and equitable. There is no need to put a seasoned POPD officer in training with a new VCSO recruit deputy, and treat them as equals in value and experience. A suitable merger would
be to work out a process where former Port Orange Police officers work in the city of Port Orange which they are well acquainted with, and while assigned in the city of Port Orange they retain their seniority for vacation picks etc., unless they opt for a transfer to another area of Volusia County. It would seem wise and
beneficial to members of both departments, to keep former POPD officers within Port Orange.

Not giving superior officers an option to transfer into VCSO would be an inexcusable waste of
talent and brilliance. The best and the brightest should not be thrown out with the expensive water.
It would be stupidity on the part of the city council of Port Orange, and arrogant stupidity on the part
of Sheriff Ben Johnson. It can be worked out. It has been done in the past in other police departments.

Citizens of Port Orange should consider if the new VCSO deputies will always be on patrol in
Port Orange, or are they going to be shifted when needed to the county area around New Smyrna Beach,
Edgewater, or even when VCSO is short on patrol, to the 415 and rt. 44 area. If so, dollar for dollar
what improvement in public safety is coming to the citizens of Port Orange?. Or for that matter,
the issue that had to be thought over more than once, do the citizens of Port Orange want less public safety
for a cheaper cost.

Times are bad folks, and if you watch the news, there are a lot of desperate people out there,
committing planned and spontaneous crimes, that we have not seen in quite a while.
Perhaps the crime statistics are down for Port Orange, but do you think that could change?
You bet it could. Just take away alert, always on patrol police officers, who stop and investigate
suspicious people, cars and circumstances, and soon you and I will notice that, and those
scum bags in Daytona Beach that Chief Chitwood talks about will notice it too. Right now, Port Orange is
the worse place around this area to commit a crime. The POPD is geared to set
up an instant perimeter, and with gusto they respond, because they pride themselves in
keeping the city safe and catching the bad guys. They enjoy doing it, and that is good
for you and me.

Early in my police radio listening days down here in this area, there was a larceny and
resisting arrest to a Lost prevention officer, assault on that civilian, and the police were looking for the suspect in a field, surrounded by woods, somewhere in Ormond Beach. At the time that I was listening I was not familiar
with the call signs of ground units, so I am not sure if the police officer I am criticizing was an Ormond Beach officer or a VCSO deputy. But air one radioed down to "the police officer on foot who is walking away from
those people out in the back yard." The officer answered. Air one asked, "Did you ask those people
how long they have been out there and if they saw any one running/" (I would suspect air one and canine would want to know if they perhaps should not be concentrating the search in this immediate area) I flipped, and still remember when the office responded: "No I didn't bother with them, and you know air one, only a portable radio was taken." Air one was silent and did not respond. I don't know if any supervisor got to speak to that particular
officer about his idea of law enforcement, but I can tell you that in the Port Orange Police Department,
that officer would have been contacted by a supervisor, over the radio, and ordered to go to that family and report back by radio what they might have or may not have seen. An incident like this I never heard again
in all my years of police radio monitoring down here in Florida, but wait until I tell you what I have heard
on "i" call conversations.

People, contact city hall, and tell them you want them to find a way to keep the Port Orange Police Department.
You know that in a few instances I had thought the Port Orange Police officers could have given me a little
more help and leeway when I was around to video their actions at a police scene, so trust me when I say,
small annoying instances like that do not diminish the sterling police department we have here now.

Of all the police departments that I have watched with a keen eye, this POPD is the best. The second best that I have observed is Nassau County Police Department up on L.I.

The worst is Suffolk County Police Department on L.I. And scary as it is, I heard from people
up on L.I. that the SCPD are spiteful and if you speak out about them, they retaliate. The county
commissioner took them off of the Long Island Expressway and disbanded the highway department
of SCPD and instead put the sheriffs on highways. Although officially, this was an economic move,
many up there know that this is because they were resented and out of control. The SCPD PBA is running
TV ads to try and convince the public that the SCPD officers are their friends and are courteous.

A wife of a former trooper on L.I., friends of my family for many years, told me about the response
of the SCPD. on two occasions when someone tried to break into her home, while she was there.
In both cases, her dog scared them off. In both cases the responding officer said that they would put
extra patrols on that street, but did not go outside in the yard to investigate. Next day, her neighbor
found the screen that had been ripped off and returned it to Dorothea.

I am not saying that VCSO will provide that kind of police service, but you must know that at the
present time, POPD would not be providing such laxadazical service.

It may be that the city of Port Orange will not opt to disband the POPD and invite VCSO in. In my estimation, if anything should be disbanded it should be RCC, and I understand there would be a monetary saving if VCSO provided radio and emergency 911 dispatch. But don't wait for the city council to make up their minds,
without your input. E mail them so that it becomes a public record, and tell them you are willing to pay the extra taxes to keep such a fine police department. Then we will ask them to tally up how many e mails they got
from citizens requesting to keep the POPD and how many to throw away what we all have trusted for many years.

The city council is usually not forthright and open about how they are thinking. So ask them now, to explain their thoughts on this matter. Ask them if they are really considering abandoning good professional police service, that has been documented and recorded, for a cheaper police force.

They owe more to their police force, than they do developers, including the Master Developer
of the Riverwalk project.

What do you think?.

Use this link to comment on this issue.

-- hank springer poanpostsed 8 5 10 at 940 pm

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SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF DISBANDING THE PORT ORANGE POLICE DEPARTMENT

I have received a number of e mails from POAN readers, expressing their thoughts about giving police duties
for the city of Port Orange to VCSO.

I will post those that I can.

Let me say again, that in my estimation, from personal observations at police incident scenes,
and from a lot of time listening to police work and activities on the police scanner,
I think the POPD is a first class, professional police department, and it would be
a shame for the quality of life for the city's citizens to lose what they have.
I think the citizens should ask city hall to retain the police department,
and find out what kind of a financial tax increase it would cost us citizens. I will return to
this aspect of the issue, in between posting the thoughts of others.

I will dare to tell about incidents that I know about which convince me that
VCSO is of a lesser quality professional police department compared to POPD.
More about this, later.

It is far too easy, and stupid, to abandon a police department that has been serving the citizens
so admirably, only to save money. Some things should not be on the burner, and this is one of them.
However it was done, and who ever is responsible for putting together one of the best police departments
I have seen in my years in police enforcement, it would be a stupid and careless shame,
not to hold on to a public safety outfit that other cities are virtually dieing to have.

Give me time to get started and I will explain where the professionalism I am talking about, is.

I worked in two counties on Long Island, and belonged to the Nassau County Chiefs association,
and met a good number of police administrators, and had opportunities to watch 26 police departments in action in Nassau county, and 8 in Suffolk County. Since I have been here in the Daytona Beach area since 1994,
I have an opportunity to observe 10 police departments in action. I will as I go along on this reflection
and judgment call, write to you about what one learns about a police department when listening to
the private "i" calls of police departments.
Also, I have conversed with a number of news journalists, off the record, and have an idea that
a lot of my thinking is the same with them.

This does not qualify me as an expert, and you are free to measure my observations with
what I say I have experienced and seen.

A police department that has been formed like the POPD take years to develop. Somewhere at some time
someone put good administrative techniques into play and through generations of promotions and retirements
a good working model has been sophisticated and reinforced. The present police chief and his two commanders, (where is the third? is Brody a Captain yet?) are of excellent caliber. I did not think all of the
commanders were top notch when I first became a little acquainted with them back in 1996, but the recent
appointments by Chief Monahan seem to me to be excellent choices.

Besides being foolish about financial affairs, disbanding the POPD I think would be almost morally
wrong. Guys with families who have served well at the front doors of our community, protecting us from
what could come into our homes from other communities, deserve much consideration, about what we owe them,
and to dismiss them as an too expensive line item in our budget, would in my mind be morally irresponsible.
I worked for a civilian agency which thought that way, but this is not the time to get into that, but I know how
easy it is for civilians who have control over a police department, to constantly envy and perhaps resent
what might be perceived as driving around in a police car, reaping a lot of money for not doing much.

But in this case, we are talking about a police department that has been fashioned into a year after year accredited, top notch, professional force. There are few of them around anymore, and that you can
observe just by watching the news. But bare with me. I will explain, if not today, in the days to come,
what the difference will be, having VCSO around instead of the POPD that we know today.

More to come. I have not thought out an agenda presentation for my thoughts, but
I certainly know what I want to talk about. Bare with me if you are interested.

--- hank poanposted 8 5 10 at 841 pm

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poanposted 8 6 10 at 942 am

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poanposted 8 6 10 at 742 pm

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From Jim

Ask the city manager to retire early,

cut back on the amount of officers

Ask the city manager to retire early, you know, take one of those package deals he is offering.  The only problem is he is to old for early retirement and he only gets what he has now, OR I'M SURE HIS PRESENT FRIENDS ON THE BOARD, would give him a big bonus from his loving tax payers funds!  As far as the police go, the only thing I can think of real quick would be cut back on the amount of officer's.  Keep up the good work, enjoy your web site.  Jim

Thanks for you input, Jim.

In my estimation, the city manager of Port Orange, Ken Parker, is a professional, and knows his subject matter.

In regards to how the city council votes, his job is to coordinate communication to the city council members and keep them informed. Unless he does it when not in public, he seems to not steer the council members
in any direction, but advises of advantages and disadvantages of various course of actions.

And he runs the city agencies.

I fault Mr. Parker, for something that happened about 4 years ago. The city planning board prepared a memo for the city council, recommending a moratorium on further development in Port Orange, for a number of reasons. Mr. Parker refused to send that memo to the city council, because he felt the issue needed to be discussed in a workshop setting. I think such a decision of no action until after a workshop should have been made by the city council. But of course, city council members who were made aware of the memo might have told Mr. Parker that in no way did they want to pass judgment on such a moratorium in front of the public, so as to not to get the
public on their case about "being fair to developers".

The second thing I fault the City Manager for, is for entering into discussions with the master developer
of the Riverwalk project, without, it seems to me, input or the knowledge of most of the city council members.
Or perhaps, the city council members did not want to be informed of the financial deal Mr. La Cour and the City Manager was cooking up with buying the Lohman's funeral home for over $800,000 when it was worth
under $500,000. There again, perhaps Mr. Parker was following the secret input of council members.
Bob Pohlmann told me he did not know about the deal until Thursday before a Tuesday night council meeting, when he was expected to vote on authorizing the $800,000 payment to Mr. La Cour. Ben Tallutto on the CRA board was publicly upset that he had not been notified about this deal, onto the Friday night before the
Tuesday night meeting. But Mr. La Cour had already bought the property seemingly with the approval of the city manager, and thus Mr. La Cour wanted to be reimburse for the money he had put out, on behalf of the city of Port Orange.

Bob Pohlmann voted no to giving Mr. La Cour $800,000. I applaud him for that. He was the only
council member to vote no. The mayor indicated that he had some knowledge of this deal going on.
Oh, I bet he did!

When the other council members had been advised that it was in the works to buy this property at
an exorbitant price, I do not know. We can ask them, but what is the use, whether they knew or didn't know,
they could have voted no to paying $800,000 for property worth less than $500,000.

They think we are stupid, don't they?. Or they think, so who will start a stink? Port Orange Area news,
we can ignore that amateur web site.,

Mr. Parker might facilitate deals, but he does not cast a vote on them.

I suggest getting rid of every council member, but consider keeping Bob Pohlmann.
Bob asks probing questions at council meetings, while other council members seem to
already know everything about an issue, and have their minds made up on how they will vote.

Green, Mary Martin, and George Steindoerfer are quitting so they have said. (run away - run away!)
Kennedy is still running to be re elected. I would not miss him if he loses the election.
We need new people who understsand that their job is to represent us, 100 percent, before worrying about being
fair to developers. Developers have not been fair to us. They start affordable, or middle income projects with the city of Port Orange
and then midway go back to the city and cry that the market will not sustain a middle income price home,
and ask to change the plans so that they can build slightly more expensive homes. And the city always
let them change what we were all hoping for. And they build our communities with streets
too G..D Damn narrow, for parking curbside and travel for emergency vehicles.

Is the City Manager one of the demons here in city government? Maybe,
but I am not sure, yet. He is clever, and knowledgeable, no doubt about that.

--- hank poanposted 8 6 10 at 730 pm

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poanposted 8 6 10 at 535 pm

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Port Orange considers dropping police

Updated: Wednesday, 04 Aug 2010, 9:51 PM EDT
Published : Wednesday, 04 Aug 2010, 9:51 PM EDT

see story and video on Fox TV news

poanposted 8 6 10 at 527 pm

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Port Orange, Fl.

City Considers Closing Police Department

see WESH TV video

poanposted 8 6 10 at 520 pm

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